Yes or No--After Date #1
After a date, there is the agonizing experience of deciding whether you want to see this person again.
There are many factors involved, and some are more important than others.
Are you attracted to him/her? If you aren't, they'll tell you maybe the looks will grow on you, and that whole business. If you find him/her repulsive, don't even bother with a second date, because it will simply be a waste of time.
Did you have a good time? Well, life is not all about having a good time. However, if you enjoy the other person's company, it's definitely grounds for a second date. As you've read, I'm always ready to go home after 2 hours. One time, I enjoyed myself so much, I was almost disappointed when the guy took me home.
That was a first!
Are your Hashkafos on par? Sometimes people set you up, and don't know you very well. So you might end up going out with someone who listens to "English" music. Music is a big part of people's lives, so it won't necessarily work out well. Or this person might go to the movies and consider it significant. Things like that.
Similarly, if they have completely differing views on contemporary issues, like "Teens at Risk," (how contemporary is that, really?) blogging, the Bais Yaakov and Yeshiva systems, society in general, this might lead to strife later on.
Does the person sound smart? When I'm on a date and countless grammatical errors jump out at me, I am thoroughly turned off. I'm not saying that anyone's grammar/usage has to be perfect, I know that mine isn't either, but when the errors are basic concepts taught in Jr. High...it's not a turn-on. Also consider the arguements they present, if any. If you talk about nothing the whole date, and don't bring up any issues--you're either both shallow, or one of you is. But if s/he says something that doesn't make any rational sense, it's something to think about.
Does s/he treat you and others well? This is more for the girls, since it's the guy who has to "serve" the woman all night, holding open doors, picking up the tab, walking her to the door (or out of the car, at least) You can see a lot from someone's mannerisms. I mean, if either gender speaks with disrespect to the date, or about others, it's simply suicide. Generally speaking, though, are they kind, gentle, friendly, etc. Two guys in particular were really friendly to the people behind the counter/waiter wherever we went, which really made my decision difficult.
Everyone has different priorities, so I can't discuss many more things since they might only be important to me. Some might care about the Black Hat, others don't. Some don't mind smoking, others do. Same goes for learning, minyanim, wardrobe, tv exposure, what have you...
I Agree
Know it All's post about arguing got me thinking about some dates I've been on.
Don't just "agree," build on your answer! I hate when I spew out my opinion on something only to have the guy say, "Yeah, you're right." Why not a, "Yeah, you're right, because when I was in Yeshiva..." or something like that. This way, you launch conversation-you run the risk of getting off the topic and not being able to share something, but this risk is far better than that of an awkward silence.
Now, if you disagree, obviously you have to back it up as well. I think what KIA said was kinda obvious, which is- don't get all huffy and stubborn and say, "No, I'm
telling you it's...." I once had an arguement about some song. I knew what I was talking about. I just figured I'll agree because it's better than arguing about something stupid and meaningless.
One guy asked me if I approve of something that I cannot stand, and won't tolerate. I was tempted to just say it doesn't bother me, because I knew I'd never see the loser again, and why argue. But it was something that I am so against, I told him straight out, "I don't approve." Till then, I was kind of expecting a "yes" from him. After I told him I don't approve, and shot down all of his justifications, I figured it would be mutual. Sure enough, he said "yes" anyway.
Was it that I had the guys to disagree with him? Was he simply testing me? Was it the manner in which I disagreed with him?
I don't know. But I am a firm believer in standing by what you believe (in something significant, not necessarily which year Cheers debuted) and possibly risking the date because of it.
"Do you wear seatbelts on dates?"
As we all know, there are many rules that apply when Shidduch dating, like wearing a suit, not taking along a handbag, not ordering a Diet Coke, eating only half your food and not more, etc. (oh, and by the way, the people who write "ect." really need to get a clue) The list goes on.
Many people have asked if we should add a new rule to the list. Unless it already exists, and I am unaware.
Should a girl wear a seatbelt on a date?
I mean, after all, if the guy (who usually drive like Animals--just kidding, Know It All, and AMD) makes a short stop, and the girl goes flying, and ends up gashed and bleeding, it's all worth it, because the boy was not able to sneak a peek and the assets while he drove. Or, better yet, nothing will happen to her because she was so careful about her Tznius.
Come on, how stupid is that? If the guy wants to see a woman's figure, he knows how and where to get it. It's not "tzniusdik" to have the shoulderstrap in an opportune place. Besides the fact that if the girl is well-endowed, he'll see it whether she wears a seatbelt or not. If the girl is not well-endowed, the seatbelt won't make much of a difference anyway.
So where does that leave us?
"Will She Mind If He Turns on Lite-FM Once in A While?"
Ahhh-the touchy topic of Goyishe music. Or for you Yeshivish people out there, "English music," Good to know Irish, Canadian, Russian, and American music are okay. As long as it's not English, we're safe. Is that how it works?
Anyway, on a first date, I unintentionally led to the topic of Goyishe music, so I asked him directly, "Do you listen to Goyishe music?" (in a totally neutral tone) The guy blushed, and reminded me that
that, my friend, is a "third date question." Oh, is that the rule? Great. So I gotta go out with this guy twice more just to find that out?
He ended up answering it (duh-"he's trying to stop"), and we discussed it a little. No big deal.
My point is that although it sounds petty and shallow when you ask about it, it effects everyday life. Every time I get into my car, there is music on. In the kitchen, there is music on. In my bedroom when I am studying, there is music on. Let's say the guy likes Rock and Roll, and I'd like to stick with my Eli Gerstner and Matisyahu- every time we are together, somebody is giving up on his/her musical pleasure.
Also, you don't want to bring your mate down with you. If you've managed to quit Goyishe music, and now your new mate wants to have it on all the time, s/he's bringing you down. On the other hand, is it something to dump someone over?I mean, if it's an 8th date, (what am I talking about-8th date, you're engaged for 2 weeks by then) whatever-and you're serious, and you find out about the music thing, it might be a dumb thing to break things off, but if it's at the beginning, does it make such a difference?
Stop Setting Me Up With Losers!
According to many, there is a shortage of girls looking for "working" guys. Perhaps because in some communities, there is a stigma in seeking a working guy. These, um,
people believe that a girl looking for a working guy is a loser.
As Know It All described, there is no more in-between. So because I am looking for a working guy, they assume any ol' movie-addict smoker is good for me. They assume that because I wear denim
even when I am not in camp!!!! I am a bum. Don't mind the girls who wear skirts that barely cover their knees, and boots that make them look like they belong on a street corner. They're fine. But me? I wear denim.
I do not want to live voluntarily like a leech off my parents while my husband "learns" a.k.a sits around with the other guys with rich in-laws, smokes like a chimney, and discusses last night's game. So I am set up with the
working losers.
"Sure, I cheated my way through Touro," they boast. "Learn? Nah, I just make them say that so I sound good. Who has patience?" or, "Yeah, I went to Vegas last year with my friends," They are avid movie-goers, and enjoy non-tzniusdik goyishe music. They are sleezy, gross losers. I've been told that if I look for a learning guy, I'll get a "higher quality boy." Doubtful. Just a faker. Because I know I can't go for the whole full-fledged Yeshivish thing, although I admire it--the sincere ones. So I need a guy who wears a white shirt and hat every day, and all that garbage, and then he goes to movies and thinks there's nothing wrong with it? No.
I don't get it. Know It All is right. There are practically no in betweeners. What happened to nice, sincere, honest, well-meaning guys who choose to learn at a set time, but are ambitious and work as well. Not addicted to TV and movies, and treat people with respect. Gone.
BTW-disregard that when I get married, G-d willing.
Take Me HOME!!!
There are times when I am out with a guy, and an hour into the date, I am so ready to go home. Not just because I am drained for being 10x more outgoing than my usual outgoing self, but because the guy is a total loser.
However, the official Shidduch rules state that it is the boy's job, and ONLY the boy's job to decide when to end the date. So, we're in the lounge, and he's yabbering on about which movie he saw last, and trying to describe the plot, and I just wanna get the hell outta there. But no. I can't just stand up, and head toward the door.
I have to sit there. And listen. And make believe to care, "Oh, so that was Mel Gibson who played the..." and manage to change the subject without seeming totally bored by the guy. So 10:00 rolls around. I'm freakin exhausted from the date, and from the pre-date jitters that are quite draining, by the way. I know I am totally saying "no" to this guy. Yet, I wait. FINALLY, the guy stands up. "Oh, just fixing my pants," he explains. Before he can return to his seat, I rise, and say, "Well, that's okay, we can go now," and spend the rest of the night feeling guilty that I was the one who wrongfully "ended" the date.
